Ex DGP Aravinda Rao is a well known name among most of the political enthusiasts in Andhra Politics. His name came up prominently when Naxalite issue came to the fore in AP in past decade. He has been instrumental in his work in the police department. Many didnt know, including yours sincerely, that the Ex-DGP has a great interest in Sanskrit, Hindu culture and Hindutva. Post retirement, he vows not only to concentrate on developing Sanskrit scholars, but also researching Hindu Siddhanta and strengthening it. He revealed many of the details of this and his professional career in a recent interview on ABN News channel.
Yours sincerely, after a request from @centerofright, found it a good idea to transcribe the whole interview in English. If any interested people would like to add time details to this video and make an SRT file out of this, we can probably make it a subtitle and post asubtitled video or ask ABN to post the subtitled video on their channel.
Complete Transcript Follows:
Aravinda Rao. Ex- DGP. An IPS office known for his sincerity and simplicity. Though he is criticized for his strict attitude towards Naxalite issues, he says it is part of his duty. With his keen interest in Sanskrit and Hindu Culture, after his retirement, he became a full-time student of both. “Open Heart with RK” with Ex-DGP who says that his life goal is to work towards reestablishing Hindu Culture.
Radha Krishna (RK): Welcome to Open Heart. Namaskaram Mr. Aravinda Rao.
Aravinda Rao (AR): Namaskaram.
RK: You retired after service as DGP. That means you have to leave your ostentation and haugtiness.
AR: Yes. They automatically go by themselves.
RK: Yeah. They automatically go by themselves. So how are you feeling? Life after retirement? Life after such pomp! Other jobs are different. Even IAS is not like this.
AR: First few days, there will be a feeling of loss. But I personally felt that – I got a lot of free time, freedom of speech. Lot of free time in the sense that with my interest in reading books etc., I found myself comfortable in no time. I got accustomed to it in no time.
RK: So you got into reading.
AR: Yes. On the other hand, slowly I started writing articles when I got angry.
RK: Angry on who?
AR: In general on society or on any section (of IPC/CrPC). *smiles* Got used to such activities. So I became comfortable in fairly one or two months. From then it was happy.
RK: You got used to it.
AR: Yes, I got used to it. I also didnt for a post or anything like that.
RK: Normally, people in IPS, after retiring try to move into similar lines of work in private companies or some executive positions. You, in a different way, suddenly from Khaki uniform, you moved into spiritual dress, I mean figuratively. What is your motivation behind this to go so spiritual?
AR: This is not actually spiritual also because about 15-20 years ago, it all developed as part of my job. Actually, in 1994, when I was in city police, we arrested some people. In old city, there was Student Islamic Organization – SIMI at that time. When we arrest such people, even senior officers talk to them and ask them why they did that and so on. When I asked them, I was surprised at their conviction. They said “our religion is the greatest. Yours is a foolish religion. Look at us, we worship only one god. But look at you. You have so many gods”. I couldnt answer these youngsters. Normally, police interrogation is different. I didnt go there for interrogation, I went only to talk to them. Then I felt that my knowledge is very inadequate. In general several comments also come about that there is nothing in Hinduism, and that all Upanishads and all is copied from Buddhism. So to understand what is actually there in it, with whatever little introduction I had to sanskrit in childhood, I took it up seriously in a serious and systematic way. I joined a Sanskrit professor. I went through some basic books seriously. For instance, Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads, Brahmasutras and Bhashyams (commentaries) related to them in a systematic way. Luckily, I got a very good Guru.
RK: Who is he?
AR: Padmasri Pullela Ramachandrudu. A maha mahopadyaya. Then, after him, another Guru called Tatvavidhananda Swami. Like we saw recently, he is a very very open Swami. He goes around and mingles with everybody openly.
RK: A very simple Swamiji
AR: Yes. He stays in a flat actually.
RK: Yeah staying away from all haughtiness. *laughs*
AR: Yes. So with acquaintance of such people, almost for 18 years since 1994 I did an MA and then a PhD to know more in this area. So it all started as part of my job. Not exactly a spiritual angle.
RK: Hmm … not exactly as spiritual but to know about Hinduism.
AR: Yes, after these many years of continued study, I am also becoming spiritual because I feel lot less anger, desires and such emotions. May be thats why like you said I didnt go to any corporate executive job though many of my colleagues go for such jobs.
RK: So you achieved satisfaction.
AR: Yes *laughs*
RK: *laughs* So in this line, you get Manasika Shanti (mental peace) replacing Manasika Ashanti (mental tension)
AR: Yes. That is true. That is what it guarantees. It guarantees this satisfaction and happiness. This can be seen only with experience over a period of time.
RK: It is a contrast to see Aravinda Rao in Uniform and Aravinda Rao in this line.
AR: Yes. People tell me that I contradict myself.
RK: So in your service many called you Rakshasudu (demon)
AR: Yes. Many did call me like that *laughs*
RK: *laughs* How did you feel?
AR: I never used to feel anything even then. It was generally part of my duty. No use in feeling sad about it. In their view, I am a Rakshasudu (demon). We cant really say anything about it.
RK: Even if you convince them personally, they wouldnt listen.
AR: Yes. There is nothing to really do to convince them. So, even if they say so, we have to bear it.
RK: In your total service, you got most name and critic on one issue – Naxalite issue and Telangana.
AR: Naxalite issue. Oh yes.
RK: Telangana was more towards the fag end of your career, but in the mid of your career, it was Naxalite issue. In anti-insurgency and anti-naxalite operations, you were the main person.
AR: I wouldnt really say I was the main person behind them.
AR: No. No. I really dont think so. A good system developed in India over a period of time. Almost like for some 25-30 years, it was mainly handled by Intellegence department. If you look at officers in Intelligence department for the past 25-30 years. Taking any particular names is unnecessary. If look at these officers, they were all people with a lot of conviction and ground understanding. Each of them worked in at least 4 or 5 districts. None of them were without any field experience. For example, I myself worked in 5 districts as SP. Likewise each one of them worked in districts and knew exactly what the problem is. We all worked in forests. While work in such areas, we will know what we are missing. Slowly, over period of time, by sheer trial and error, we developed some systems. Not that we are brilliant people but by sheer trial and error. Fortunately for us, these systems are working well. The difference between our state (AP) and other states is that senior officers are not getting involved, where as here we are giving greyhounds training to even ASP, we are training him just as we give commanding training to a constable.
RK: Hmm…you are giving equal training.
AR: Yes..we are giving equal training.
RK: Plus they are also participating in operations.
AR: Yes. They are also participating in operations. So they are able to understand. In other states, they are unable to cope up because they are still in feudal mindset.
RK: Sort of Lordship. *laughs*
AR: Now some other states are improving but we have had this kinds of field level contact from the start. Due to this, system developed well. So, I do not claim that I did something myself. Its not correct. I also continued what all everybody did.
RK: May be. Every body must contribute. But the brain behind it and your conviction in this issue.
AR: There are a lot of other factors. All I did was that I wrote a book. I didnt do anything more. I cant claim that I am the brain behind this. Just because I had an interest in books – reading, writing – I wrote my book in November called “Naxalite Terrorism”. That is all but I didnt do much.
RK: You introduced coverts right?
AR: It has been part of the system for long.
RK: First time, we heard that term.
AR: It has been part of the system. Nothing wrong in it.
RK: I dont say it is wrong. You introduced that system and made Naxalite leaders fear their own shadows.
AR: This has been part of the system from the start. I didnt introduce it as something new. In a strategy, a constable can give a good idea. When we involve everybody in the team including constables, they actually give very good ideas.
RK: Not just that. The team you chose were very committed. People in SIB. Most of them are very committed.
AR: Yes. You are right. Most of the time, they are very committed.
RK: Not like law and order police where even as you are telling, they SMS the info out.
AR: Yes, they are right.
RK: So because of that, perception about you is that you hate naxalites.
AR: I dont have anything personal against them. I am not even from a rich family. My father is from a village called Karanam, having about 10 acres of land. After my father passed away, we sold all those properties and we left the village long long ago. We are not anything like landlords.
RK: You didnt have such behavior or character.
AR: Yes. In fact my ambition was to become a professor. Just that I entered this profession, I continued in it. Beyond that, there is nothing personal. In fact, I believe these are misguided people. Misguided people unfortunately sucked by some leaders. Even them, they have gone beyond a point of no return. They know that if they do, there will be no identity for them. Even they know that they cant capture the power even if they return.
RK: You used to interact with top leaders right? When you capture them?
AR: Yes, when we captured some of them, I did.
RK: Many of the first generation leaders, frankly speaking they are great leaders.
AR: Yes. I agree. There is no doubt about it. Basically, they are misguided. They thought that they cant bring a change in this country. I dont think their current generation has such a feeling. But from their general disposition, they do not have any identity. Every person should have an identity, they generally get into an identity crisis. I believe that is the only reason they continue in that path. I dont think now they have any conviction that they will capture power or anything.
RK: They need to continue it. Thats why they are continuing.
AR: Yes. They are helpless and they are continuing.
RK: *laughs* Because they dont know how to come back.
AR: Yes. Because they cant come back.
RK: Even today, there is a threat to your life?
AR: Threat is there. That is what my department thinks so. I am really very much bothered about it.
RK: Anytime during the course of these operations, did they try to harm you?
AR: To do what?
RK: I mean attacking you or to put it in their language “eliminating you”
AR: Such attempts might have happened. Directly I do not know because by chance, they might have also missed.
RK: There will intelligence from the department, right?
AR: Department may have but I dont know the correct details.
RK: I mean, what you call…?
AR: Yeah there were some occasions when threats were there but I do not really remember.
RK: Rikki… they do rikki right?
AR: Such incidents happened many times. Happens with many officers. They keep looking for soft targets.So it might have happened at several times on several occasions.
RK: You were never afraid?
AR: Initially I used to fear a bit. When I was SP at Warangal, I used to be afraid. But later….You will not be afraid anymore. It is natural. Even for naxalites. Even they loose fear naturally.
RK: *laughs* for both?
RK: *laughs* Whatever may happen will happen. But they will not be afriad.
AR: Yes. It goes. That is one good thing.
AR: Even now, there is no fear. Moreover, as you said, with spiritual outlook and all….
RK: you wouldnt even have such a thought.
AR: Yes. No fear.
RK: You worked as head of such a big department and retired, but unfortunately, you had to face the CBI interrogation in Sohrabuddin case. What did you feel then?
AR: I myself went actually. If I were to request them, they would have come to my home. But I didnt want to do that. We have no role in Sohrabuddin case *laughs*. It most probably was that, they had political problem with some other state but we had no role. I mean, at least intelligence department had no role. Without our knowledge, some …. Sometimes what happens is that some one gets an information that so an so criminal is wanted in so and so state. At a very low level. How that comes out is through some other criminal. If that criminal, suppose, keeps in touch with some SI or SP, he will give that information to that inspector. That inspector will give it to somebody else. Through him, they will inform to some other counter part. Something like that must have happened but we couldnt establish that it had happened. But the, there is this wrong notion that it was done by intelligence people and that they are all knowing people, due to that they thought that intelligence people might have done something. Because of that, I was called. So I also went and deposed. I told them that we had no role as he is not wanted by either SIB or counter intelligence. If we did have a role, I would have asked counter intelligence people to do it, but why would ask somebody else to do it? So, I went and deposed. In fact not once, but thrice I reported to them. I know that subsequent questions is all part of investigation. That is all. No hard feelings.
RK: To go is different and to be called is different, right?
AR: No. Not at all. I myself went.
RK: Yeah, you went. If you had called them, they would have come. They are all juniors to you. Very very junior to you.
AR: Had I requested, probably they could have obliged. I didnt want to do that.
RK: So all through, your background is that you were a middle class farmer family in Ananthapur district.
AR: To start with … I would say we were lower middle class.
RK: Yeah. Lower middle class. That 10 acres of land is not of much consequence. It is not even fertile land!
AR: Now I have come to upper middle class.
RK *laughs* after 30 years of service.
AR: Thats true.
RK: Now you are upper middle class. So, if we compare with other DGPs, some say you lead a simple life. Is that true?
AR: There are many who lead even simpler life than me. Several retired DGs like that.
RK: But many inspectors in your department lead a luxurious life, right?
AR: That is a way of life.
RK: Individual’s perception?
AR: Not individual perception. It may be true. Because in some particular cases, even if we touch them, they would fall. I am not saying that IAS and IPS officers are great. But we generally dont face such situations. But for him, it is possible. On the street, he may catch somebody and he would face that situation.
RK: I wouldnt agree that you wont face such situation. If you are in that work, you will face it.
AR: In the line of work, yes but we do care for our image. So, many IPS officers are absolutely honest, very good people who lead very simple life compared to me. I can show to you.
RK: Do you repent sometimes?
AR: No. Not at all. I dont repent. Why do I have to repent. There are many who lead a more simple life compared to me.
RK: What I mean is we have an environment is not just filled with corruption but corruption is being accepted (wrongly so).
AR: That is ok. I have never repented for not being so. My wife also never repented that I am not like that. That is a good thing for me.
AR: Apart from that, for corruption within society, we cant help it. We can do as much we can about it. Beyond that, we cant.
RK: Society is facing a basic question. After Bhanu episode, for almost 2-3 years, without any concern about the government in the State, he kept all departments in the State under his control and did whatever he liked. 4 people and 4 guns. Thats all right? 100s of crores. 100s acres of land. Dozens of settlements. What do you feel as a senior officer? Exactly what do you think?
AR: In fact I personally told our officers, it is also a failure of intelligence. I was part of the intelligence at that time. Intelligence people generally dont look at this angle – who is doing settlements etc., – they dont look at this angle. Local police, Cyberabad police is there where everyday activity is going on. How can so many settlements happen without their knowledge? How can they happen without DSP or ACP knowing about them? No question about it. It is a failure of intelligence. There is also connivance. The departments that you talked about. Ok. I think where is there is coordination required with some departments, he might have controlled them. But to an extent, it is a failure of our system. There is no doubt about it.
RK: What I am saying is if it becomes so easy, it will be an example to everybody else.
AR: As I told you, I have to admit that it was a failure. *laughs*
RK: We have to repair this, right? This destruction of the system, it eats away. Like we discussed in our other discussion “If we protect Dharma, it will protect us”. If we protect the system, it will protect us.
AR: Correct. I agree. If we look at the senior officer level, definitely he can stop it. People in that area’s commissioners at that time were absolutely honest. It could have happened that care was taken that these activities dont get into their notice. That is ok. We really cant….
RK: System has to be replaced.
AR: If you say system has to be repaired…I really cant say how they could do it in such a way that it skipped their notice!
RK: Not like just you or just me, but collectively, do you feel we have to do this?
AR: I agree. Long ago, I was discussing proposals. In all land related cases in Panchayats etc., we should have a team of Revenue….junior IAS officer and a junior IPS officer. Wherever there is a land dispute, our inspector will not interfere, neither will Tahsildar. Only team will go. This team of junior IAS and IPS officer should go along with an executive magistrate officer. This is what I proposed many times. Somehow, it did not materialize. Had we done that, a good team of young officer bubbling with idealism, particularly in these areas in an around Hyderabad, we need to create such teams. Otherwise, this will continue like this. Because, inspector will come on various considerations. DSP will come on various considerations. After that, it is difficult for the senior officer to know what happens in the police station on the daily basis.
RK: It is not possible. People are putting 10 times more money into transfer than what they used to put in for just a job some time ago.
AR: Sometimes, it depends.
RK: I wouldnt say that it was always.
AR: It depends on the particular setup at a particular time.
RK: You would have experienced it all?
AR: It depends on the particular setup at a particular time. Sometimes, you will have freedom. Sometimes you wont. Sometimes commissioner will have freedom. Sometimes he wont.
RK: What was you best period. As an officer, with complete freedom and per your conscience, when you did your duties fully? No need to tell me names of chief ministers.
AR: I did my job till I became DIG very freely. After I became DIG, for the first time, I came to know the caste of inspectors or SIs. Till then, I never knew their caste or otherwise, I was freely…..
RK: Allowed to work?
AR: Not allowed. I was taking ….. allowed would mean whether or not my seniors felt happy with my work.
RK: There is a political system, right?
AR: I never bothered myself with political system.
RK: When did you become DIG?
AR: I became DIG in ’91 March to ’93. I was DIG in Guntur. During that time only, for the first time, I came to know that so an so was Kapu, so and so was Khamma. Till then, I never knew, in my work in other districts, I never knew.
RK: You were in Telangana districts till then?
AR: Yes. Mostly Telangana districts.
RK: They dont bother about these things.
AR: Yeah. They give life. In Telangana districts, if they like the SP, they give life. So, I never knew. Political interference was not very huge in that time. It started in 91, 92. So, I would say my best period is that. I worked hard in that period and there was full satisfaction. Later, slowly…. in Government work, people say as we grow old, we loose one vertebra.
AR: So, it happens to everybody. We have to make sure that vertebra isnt too loose.
RK: So that it doesnt implode *laughs*
AR: Yeah. *laughs*
RK: Some say in another way – When joining Service Garam Garam (hot hot), mid way naram naram (soft soft), toward the end Besharam (shameless)
AR: *laughs* they say so….vertebra thing is another one, they keep saying. So, we have to make sure the back doesnt bend too much.
AR: I may be making too much of a frank statement. But….
RK: No its a fact.
AR: It is a fact in the case of several people. It may not be a fact in the case of some people.
RK: That depends upon what opportunities they get.
AR: Yeah. Thats right. Some people stay strong. We cant be sure about some.
RK: What did you think if ever had to do something against your own will?
AR: I didnt face any such serious things. I may not be able to recall. I didnt do anything that was so painful to my conscience or forcibly done. I am not able to recall anything (of that sort).
RK: Fortunately then, you were in intelligence through out YSR’s period.
AR: Yes. I was in intelligence.
RK: So, in a way saved. *laughs*
AR: Yes. Because of being in intelligence. And in intelligence, whatever little was required, only that much, it was small module, so whatever little was required, we were interacting.
RK: You used to give your reports openly?
AR: Yeah. Yeah. No doubt about that. He also knew the possibilities and limitations of intelligence. We generally think that intelligence department would know everything. Even I used to think like that.
RK: Just that names indicates it.
RK: As if Intelligence meaning they are very intelligent.
AR: Even I used to think like that. After I went into that department, I realized that intelligence department would know just a little bit about what happens in the Government. Because Government is quite huge.
RK: Resources are also less.
AR: Even if you have resources you wouldnt. If we keep a watch on each and every person, you would a little bit more. But beyond that, it is difficult.
RK: Above all, posting intelligence department is a punishment.
AR: There is nothing of that sort.
RK: Many people feel that way.
AR: Subordinates feel that it is a punishment.
RK: I am not talking about senior levels. I meant subordinates.
AR: Yeah. They do feel.
RK: Those who have to bring the information.
AR: They do feel like that.
RK: Actually person who has to gather information, they feel that way.
AR: Yes, they feel that way.
RK: Leave out bosses.
AR: Yes. Yes. That is true.
RK: One way, for you, it is a privilege.
AR: That is true.
RK: IG Intelligence is virtually is a privilege post.
AR: That is true *winks*
RK: Always you have access to chief minister.
RK: You said something interesting a moment ago. You said that Telangana people give you their lives. But how come you got this name that you worked against creation of Telangana?
AR: I really dont know how that notion came about? It is not so. I never did anything like that.
RK: Even when you were DGP?
AR: Not at all. Not at all. It is surprising to me actually. I am not at all anti-Telangana. None of the telangana leaders even told me. For example, Harish Rao and other talk to me frankly. They would have told me if this were the case. They never told me so.
RK: Personally what do you feel?
AR: I cant say *laughs*. Right now I am in Telangana. So I will continue to be in Telangana.
RK: *laughs* whether it is united state or otherwise?
AR: Yes. I will not go back to my home town, Anatapuram or anything of that sort. I will be here only.
RK: You dont have anything there anymore right?
AR: Yeah. We sold our properties there long time ago.
RK: You may have some relatives there, right?
AR: Yeah. Thats all. Most of them migrated to Bangalore. Most of the people migrate to Bangalore.
RK: You dont have even an own house there, right?
AR: No. Nothing.
RK: You bought only one piece of land right?
AR: Here. Yes. In Hyderabad.
RK: Thats all, right? Only one.
AR: Yes. Thats all it. Some small thing but nothing else.
RK: Nothing in Prakash (?) Nagar, right?
RK: Why didnt you take?
AR: Somehow I missed out. Myself, Mohanty… we missed out. Rathan …. we all missed out.
RK: Strange actually. All three of you were unique when it came to arrests.
AR: We used to have flats by then. We declared by then. So we didnt get (allotment) *laughs*
RK: *laughs* Sometimes too much of honesty is also not good, right?
AR: I cannot say that. But may be we were not very very smart at that time. *laughs*
RK: *laughs* That is what I am saying
AR: No regrets.
RK: Not a question about regrets. Mohanty, impeccable integrity. Rathan too. You too.
AR: Yes. Even Nandan too.
RK: Serious people. Yet you didnt get (allotment). *laughs*
RK: These things are so strange. How many times did (people) try to tempt you? In department during service?
AR: We generally feel like that but temptation will not be there.
RK: I mean someone else asking you for a help (for some favor)
AR: No. It wont be there. Because in first few years, generally reputation will be clear. Within first few years, reputation will be clear (to people) that this person will take us to task if we approach him or he will shout at us. This will be clear even during SP phase. So, I can say that there was no situation where I was asked for favors. That is the experience of many other people.
RK: Many people do get (such offers), right?
AR: No. I didnt face any experience of that sort. In fact, some cases were there where my subordinates pointed out that there could be some benefit in some cases. I also scolded them in such cases but no situations like that from outside. They will generally get to know. People will know. Moreover, in police department such cases are less. In other departments this may be seen often. But in police department, magnitude of corruption is rather less.
RK: How? How can you say that?
AR: Yes. Only when we do injustice to someone we get benefit.
RK: I agree. Both would be gainers in other departments but in your case you have two parties and you have to make one party loose and looser will come out strongly against you.
AR: Unless one party suffers injustice, I cant make money (in the context of why corruption is less in police department)
RK But (in your department)
AR: No. I never faced such a situation. Because even they would know, if things could work out with this person or not. So they never came.
RK: If we compare your generation to the current generation (in police department), what is your feeling?
AR: Strictly speaking, they are definitely technically more intelligent than us. Very intelligent.
RK: Technically Ok.
AR: Very intelligent. Intelligent in the sense, they know more about the world. And also in general abilities. Technical skills, articulation skills are very good. Many of them are honest. No doubt about it. Because with young officers, we have our own yahoo groups etc., lot of idealism is there among several people. Some bad cases may be there. That apart, I think there should be a bit more commitment in them. May be call it National Interest. May be that should be there a little more. But apart from that, on their integrity etc., I have absolutely no complaints. Some bad cases may be there but Integrity wise I have no complaints.
RK: What I am speaking of is about when you were working as SP. You (people you) didnt used to give into pressures. You also were open about what you want to say.
AR: Yes, it was like that.
RK: If SP takes a decision, it is final.
AR: Yes. Now, these people (young generation) are not able to work as freely as we could.
RK: So, SP impact is not there now.
AR: That much I can say. I have to agree. Very few people are getting such freedom depending upon the district and the leader. Some of them are asserting it. Some of them are not.
RK: If you ask me, it is not even 10 percent.
AR: May be.
RK: Why I am saying this is …. tell me when you got your recognition. You (people like you) got your name, an image only when you were SPs.
AR: Yes. Thats all.
RK: Even if you did as DGP, SP post was the crucial one. All through your career.
AR: Exactly. Exactly.
RK: Any IPS.
AR: Exactly. Exactly.
RK: So, whatever was done during that time (as SP), that remains as a memory.
AR: It will be in public memory and it determines his future also.
RK: It drives him.
AR: Yes. It drives him. It decides his future *laughs*
AR: I agree that they are not working with same freedom as we used to. But with in that, whatever is there, they are maintaining integrity and idealism.
RK: *laughs* You saw it in one way. I saw it in another.
RK: Whats the meaning of integrity after you have given in.
AR: Hmm… Even in that, there are some who really dont care about posting and come out into the public.
AR: They do that. There are some cases like that too.
RK: Really, tell me what would happen?
RK: Can anybody touch one IPS officer? We have 1 or 2 cases where IPS officers were suspended but with IAS officers, it is even worse.
AR: Not like that. Some people listen because of some reasons. We used to have a senior officer. He used to tell us a wise statement. He is a very famous officer. He used to say “You may be an honest fellow. Some times you have to listen to your political bosses also because he is not always wrong. He is also right, because of he has his own feedback”….
RK: Sometimes they act with common sense.
AR: ….haa common sense. “dont think that what you say is right. Some times you have to listen to them. If you are a good officer, you also see from his point of view. Check to what extent, you can listen to him. If you dont, you will go and some other bad fellow will come (in your place). So, if you want to fight, you should be in the ring. If you are not in the ring, some other fellow will write and receive all the punches”. He used to tell us this. There is a lot of truth in this.
RK: Very realistic.
AR: A great officer told me that. I tell this to my people too. We have to be upright but at the same time, please listen. To the extent possible, explain. When you cant…..
RK: Some people have negative mind. They say “If they tell you, dont do it”.
AR: That should be not be there.
RK: That extreme character will be also be there.
AR: You have to listen. You have to listen and if you dont like what they tell you, you should explain them, negotiate. It then depends on negotiating skills.
RK: You get in experience.
AR: Yes *laughs*
RK: *laughs* For some time, now, let us talk about retirement life. We will come back to this later. So after retirement you studied a lot of books. You studied a lot of books. Studied Quran.
AR: I read it in telugu.
RK: In telugu, yeah. You studied bible.
AR: That also, I read it in telugu.
RK: You studied them to understand what these religions are about? Or to answer the criticism on Hindu religion?
AR: No No. I studied them when I joined the intelligence department. Because…there was a necessity to find out what is in there. At that time, I read them. I didnt study in detail later. *laughs*
RK: Ok. After reading them, did you see any differences between them and Hindu religion?
AR: Several differences. Several differences. I dont know if we can talk about them in this forum.
RK: No problem.
AR: If I speak about it …. all said and done, religion is a sensitive subject.
RK: Yeah, religion is a sensitive subject.
AR: The freedom of speech that existed in the past on this subject, is not there now. In the past, in the King’s court, a advaiti, a dvaiti, a visishtadvaiti, a bouddha, all used to sit in the King’s court and
RK: ….have heated arguments.
AR: have heated arguments, fight etc. After they used to leave for their homes and used to be fine. Now it is not like that. There is not board room arguments about religion. There is no inter-faith dialogue.
AR: That is not there.
RK: Everyone says “I am right.”
AR: Today, it is like “if I speak about it, he may feel offended”. This kind of a mindset has set in. So there is no interfaith dialogue. What is your philosophy, what is mine. What is your greatness? This kind of open discussion is not happening.
RK: There is no process of talking about whats in the heart.
AR: Yes. It is not there. It used to be there in our country once upon a time. Today it is not there. So, in this situation, it is dangerous to talk about it.*laughs*
RK: *laughs* If people like you are also afraid, how (as in what can be done)?
AR: I mean … this is …. to put it very briefly, people from other religions say that “we worship only one God and that he has no shape”. Even our philosophy was the same. Even Upanishads speak of the same philosophy. Later, what our people did was….. I wouldnt call it a mistake…..but what they said was according to each person’s level, worship so and so deity. This is called Adhikari Bedham. According to Adhikari Bedham, they said one person should worship a certain deity, one person should do certain upasana, one other person should think, understand Brahmam…. So, our religion tells us that we should think and understand Brahmam. Ours is also a religion which first spoke of a concept like Nirakara, Nirguna. Its like…not just a shapeless one but God doesnt even interfere with you. We dont have any concept like God will take (suffer for) your sins. Gita clearly says that God has no interference with your sins and that you alone are responsible, so you do good.
RK: To put it simply, you are responsible for your karma.
AR: Not just that, it says you do good karma and become God. It says you become Brahman. It says that you are Jnani and that you are Brahman and that there is no differentiation between you and Brahman. Other religions didnt go to this level. In other religions, even though God is nirakara (shapeless), they were more into protecting their tribe and punishing other tribe. Our philosophy is not like that. Beyond this, we should go into this. We can talk about these freely only when there is an open discussion.
RK: Let us not get into other religions but it seems to me that you are doing a lot of indepth research into this subject.
RK: How is your research going and in which direction?
AR: I wouldnt call my research very serious. I am concentrating on Upanishads mainly. I read all the Upanishads and the commentaries written by Sankaracharya and his disciples. I wrote a research book on them. It is called “ఉపనిషత్తుల లో జ్ఞాన స్వరూప వివేచనం” (Upanishtthula lo Jnana Swarupa Vivechanam). We keep saying right, Jnana, Brahma Jnanam. So what is Brahma Jnanam? How do Upanishads describe Brahma Jnanam? In fact I wrote in Sanskrit. I wrote it in Sanskrit as a thesis and got a PhD.
RK: You published your daughter’s marriage invitation in Sanskrit right?
AR: Yes. I published in 3 languages – English, Telugu and Sanskrit.
RK: Why this interest in Sanskrit? Because it is mother of all languages.
AR: Not that. I wouldnt call it mother of all languages. Basically it is a language in which, our entire culture is present. Sanskrit language is definitely not brahmin’s language. Even those who were critical of brahmins wrote their works in Sanskrit. Buddhists initially started writing all their works in Pali to have a good reach among common people. Then they realized that their reach was very limited. Their reach was limited to only few areas. Then they started writing in Sanskrit so that entire India would know. Like how today English is a link language, at that time Sanskrit was a link language. Even till 200-300 years ago, Sanskrit was the link language. Sankaracharya went to Kashi, Srinagar, he mostly communicated in Sanskrit language. Panini, who wrote (Sanskrit) Grammar was from Lahore. He came from a small place near Lahore called Chalatura. Its a small town near Lahore. 2000 something…..no no….600 years prior to BC…. 600 BC. These …. It was a natural language, a link language at one point of time. So, most of our philosophies, be it Hinduism, be it Buddhism, be it Jainism, be it Charuvaka, all the works which were critical of these philosophies was all in Sanskrit. Moreover, various sciences. Today, there is no research going on about our ancient sciences. Unfortunately, there is no emphasis anywhere. There is no emphasis in universities. in government. In foreign countries, these days, many center of indic studies are being established to understand our ancient sciences. Unfortunately, in our country, nothing much is happening.
RK: We call it superstition.
AR: We call it superstition. But, we should at least know what is in there. Even in Ayurveda, not much of research has been done.
RK: After all this, do you think there is future for Hinduism? Or do you think, it is going to be extinct slowly?
AR: I believe it is in a dangerous situation. Because it is a very very vulnerable religion. For everybody, it is an operating field. India is a theater for various people to fight…
AR: ..experiment and grab their share. Thats why it seems to me that it is in a vulnerable situation. Because we dont have an organizational structure. If you have a purohita, above him, there is nothing else. Above purohita, there is nobody else, only Brahma. In other religions, from here to their international headquarter, they have a clear hierarchy. If we want to bring them together…
RK: They wont come together. Too many differences between them…
AR: …When in such situation, to me it seems like it is in a very dangerous situation. Unless, at least some of us in the society wake up and put some sense in to them, it is in a dangerous situation.
RK: A person like who worked for such a long time has this to say while people who say they are born for this purpose are not even thinking about it.
AR: What I feel is that they do not have the sociological awareness. They see many people coming to them and doing namaskaras every day. So they feel everything is fine. There will be some NRI. His grand father would be some great scholar. With some guilt feeling that he left his legacy behind, he will donate some lakhs. So, here he (guru) will feel everything is ok. He would even feel “see how much dharma is there even in US!”. Meanwhile, our philosophy is eroding under own feet. This social awareness is missing. This social awareness is there in some modern swamijis. Modern as in those who know English, particularly Ramakrishna Mission, Chinmaya Mission etc. These people are trying to do something.
RK: But it is interesting that people don’t trust Ramakrishna Mission and Chinmaya Mission.
AR: Yeah. Because they do not perform magic.
AR: Public also go to a person who will give them a locket, or tell them that they will perform some puja. There is still no willingness to learn it (hinduism).
RK: There is no willingness to understand who are we.
AR: Yes. This is still not there. There are few institutions – 3 or 4 – Ramakrishna, Chinmaya, Swami Dayananda, Sivananda. Except these, this consciousness is little in others I feel.
RK: Most of them have become commercial organizations.
AR: I can not call them commercial. I will not call them commercial. But unfortunately, they are flowing away in that system. Money is also very important. On the other side, other religions are getting billions of dollars from various sources. When they have such money power, somebody donating some money….
RK: No no. What I am saying is that in these other religions, what ever billions they are getting, they are distributing it to the common man.
RK: Our swamijis, whatever money they get, tell me to whom they are distributing?
AR: They do not know. They build some temples.
RK: They make their huge and luxurious Ashramas and they try to become Gods.
AR: Yes. Social awareness is missing.
RK: They are not going to common poor man, right?
AR: Some organizations do. Ramakrishna Mission etc. They do. Some other Swamijis too, as they continue to get awareness, they are also going.
RK: According to you, in Hindu Dharma, what is the weakness and what is the strength. After your extensive study.
AR: In fundamental siddhanta (philosophy), there is great strength. In open heart also, if there is anybody to debate, I can talk. But he shouldnt bring a knife *grins*
AR: I can talk openly on siddhanta. Apart from that, whoever said that we (hinduism) do not have spiritual democracy, they are right. There is no doubt about it. We have to rectify this at some point. We do not need to rectify the siddhanta, we need to rectify the practice. At many places, I was told very clearly about practices. Yesterday also, I told the same thing on the religious discussion. Dharma has both changing and unchanging components. In Upanishads too, this is very very clearly stated. hmm … Do you want me quote a mantra?
RK: Please. Please do. This is very interesting and this should be known.
AR: This is a mantra told in daily puja. Everywhere this mantra is chanted. अथ यदिते धर्म विचिकित्सावा वृत्त विचिकित्सावास्यात् Means “whenever you get a doubt (विचिकित्स) about a conduct, behavior at a particular instance, there …. ” येतत्र ब्राह्मणा संवर्सनः युक्ता आयुक्ता …. there is more after this …. meaning “local brahmans, not by caste but those who have great knowledge of the brahman…..”
RK: This is a big problem right, even after death *laughs* (he means definition of brahmin)
AR: yeah “…. such persons who have great knowledge of the brahman …. ”
RK: They are the real learned people…those who can differentiate between right and wrong
AR: “….those who are steadfast about satya (truth), those who feel they shouldnt harm …. ” Like it is said వరులేయు యొనరించిన తమకప్రియములు కలుగు “that which somebody else does to us, harms us, we shouldnt do it to others … such people who have this nishta (steadfastness, loose translation),…. whatever such people call Dharma, you too follow that”… thats the meaning of that mantra. Today in the society, when those who are learned say this is the thing we must do, that becomes Dharma. This is defined in our siddhanta. We do not need to make it something new. What siddhanta we already have, we just need to interpret properly. Nowhere in our Siddhanta “not to touch somebody”. There is nothing which says “if I touch, my Shakti (power, loose translation) will decrease”. If I touch and my shakti reduces, how can it be called shakti? When somebody is saying “you are brahman”, then if I touch (something/somebody), how can it reduce my shakti? So, we do not need to change anything in siddhanta. Following the same siddhanta, we just need to rectify all little things mentioned in Dharma. Unless we get this spiritual democracy …. that is our basic weakness. Everybody is cashing on it.
RK: That is one aspect, right. Mantra and Sanskrit. Common man cannot understand this. He is unconcerned about it.
AR: Yes. Yes. This has to explained in common language to them.
RK: They will feel like it is an alien thing.
RK: You said you studied Koran. In Telugu, you said. Which language was Koran written in?
AR: Why I read it in telugu is….
RK: ….if you want to read it, it is available in telugu.
AR: no .. no … why I didnt read it in English is because, they anglicize the original terms … a word like feron becomes Pharoah.
RK: Pronunciation differs.
AR: In telugu, what happened was Maulana Maududi – founder of Jamait-e-Islam … he translated it to telugu. I read translation of his Koran in telugu. In translations, they left the original terms as is. Due to that, we will know original terms.
RK: For pronunciation.
AR: Yeah. So, for that I read in Telugu.
RK: Thats alright. So, if you want to read, there is a Telugu version available.
AR: Yes. These (Hindu literature) also are available in telugu but for every generation, these have to be simplified.
RK: When we speak one sentence, today, we use 2-3 English words.
AR: Yes. There is nothing wrong in it. I wrote a small book recently. భగవద్గీత ఏమి చెప్తోంది? “What is Bhagavadgita saying?” It is a small book. Emesco is publishing it. It will be available in 2-3 days. In that book, I tried to explain the siddhanta to an educated reader. I do not know how clear it is ..
RK: So, you have to wait and watch how it will be received *smiles*
AR: I tried to explain each and every word and put it in simpler way. We have to see .. *laughs* … What you say is right. We have to simplify it. Only when we simplify it and offer in simplest terms, people will not realize that we have such a wonderful siddhanta.
RK: You…being a brahmin … first time … only you have started this … I mean leave aside our discussion yesterday … you keep saying caste brahmins are different from those who have brahma jnana. From you community, do you face any issues do this?
AR: No problems as such. Some people, after our debate actually scolded me .. some of my friends called up and said “why are you doing this?” I also told them “you do not know … about the social change”.
RK: Were they convinced?
AR: Whether they are convinced or not… they will know. Some of them, would have been practicing it since birth, with complete shraddha (dedication, loose translation). All acharas, they will practice will complete shraddha, and to relax them suddenly will be painful. Nothing like a superiority feeling also. It is a feeling that they are doing something wrong. It is not a feeling of superiority but that of wrong-doing.
RK: But tell me one thing Aravinda Rao garu (Aravinda Rao ji), suchi, madi etc., whatever … are these important for the mind (heart) or for the body?
AR: Clearly, there are two terms defined – Manasika Soucham, Saririka Soucham. It is clearly stated that Manasika soucham is the most important. Saririka Soucham is not that important.
RK: It is so simple, right?
AR: This has been stated clearly.
RK: That is what I am saying. If we keep our hearts pure that is different but when we fill our whole body with kalmasha (polluted, perverted) …..
AR: Correct. There is no doubt about it.
RK: What do we get by taking bath 10 times a day?
AR: Correct. This is clearly stated about Manasika Soucham.
RK: This is a bit revolutionary.
AR: No. If we can explain Sankaracharya’s theory in telugu to people, they will see how modern it is. For example, we speak of Devatas and Rakshasas. They are not some people in the akasha warring with each other, but Devatas are the good thoughts you have in your mind …. Devatas are defined as शास्त्रोत्भासिताय इन्द्रियः वृत्तः असुराः तद्विपरीताः meaning “asuras are the one who dwell in the pleasures of the indriyas …. whoever dwells in the pleasures obtained through indriyas is asura” Thats it. Such people were defined as Asuras. Devatas were defined as the ones who control indriyas.
RK: To put it in simpler terms … one who gets psychotic pleasures
AR: One who has nigraha (control, loose translation) on indriyas is Devata. One who doesnt have such nigraha is Asura. He (Sankaracharya) even used the term Adhyatmika Sangrama (spiritual war) … that happen in everybody’s mind. Another thing different lokas (worlds). That Lokas is at a different tiers is also not the notion.
RK: Patala etc…
AR: Loka is defined as a state of experience. Because …. I stay here …. I stay here and experience swarga … I stay here and experience naraka … it is a state of experience.
RK: Like you said moments ago, after retirement you are experiencing satisfaction.
AR: *laughs* yes.
RK: So virtually, you are feeling it.
AR: Yes. Thats it. If somebody is in Swarga, it is a state of experience. He (sankaracharya) explains in such modern way. Not just him, Ramanuja and others too. He is another great man, right. All of them according to the problems faced during those times,…. Sankaracharya proposed advaita … during Ramanuja’s time, bhakti was needed. So he proposed more on bhakti. Even if I get papa (sin, loose translation), he said that he will educate Thiru Mantra to everybody. He did. By the time of Madhvacharya, already India was under attacks. So by that time realization was that fighting spirit is needed. Madhvacharya was a fighter. He was a wrestler. So, according to that period, he brought Dvaita. So, according to the times….
RK: Yeah. According to the changing times, they made changes.
AR: Yeah. They evolved like that. So, if we explain siddhanta in the way they can understand, everybody will appreciate it. But unfortunately, we are getting disinherited. Somebody else comes and reads from our books and says “no, no, actually Vinayaka tradition has sex involved … Siva means has more sex” …. in that way when they are emphasizing on sex, the one reads feels repelled. Our eminences …. our eminences as in Leftist eminences .. unfortunately they target one religion always and never ever question other religion at all. If they talk about other religion…..
RK: Secular …
AR: ….unfortunate … it is very very unfortunate. They can read others also, right? They only find faults in our religion.
RK: Because it is majority religion….
AR: Whatever these people write here…. in other countries, they lap up. They call these people, honor them. In fact, I was reading in a book the other day. A lady writing in that book about some symbolism was referring to pandikokku (bandicoot) in telugu. One of our telugu person would have worked under somebody as assistant professor and would have given this clue. They write about Vinayaka’s vehicle and say that it is actually bandycoot etc. That may be right, but showing sex symbols in them. They write in a very bad-taste. They write about us as if we are very uncivilized. Our people never insulted them in such uncivilized ways…. When our people do not read our own books, why will they read their books! That is another problem.
RK: Unnecessarily because of that … it will only increase hatred thats all.
AR: Yes. Thats all it does.
RK: You are so realistic but when you were in department, why did you receive so much criticism, that you support only brahmins?
AR: No. There was never such criticism. It never happened. Nobody ever told me.
RK: They won’t tell you because you are the top.
AR: I …. I never heard anything of that sort. Somebody will tell me if there is any such feeling.
RK: It should have come to you.
AR: At least, CM would have told me. CM would have, ministers would have. Home ministry would have.
RK: Home ministry will say if there is anything.
AR: I never had any feeling tThat I supposed any group. Brahmins….. Where is such a group to support? *laughs*
RK: I was coming to that next *laughs* … There are may be 3 people?
AR: Yeah. I think when I was DG, one man was SP…. 2 people were SPs of districts. One was Ramakrishna, Another was Naveenchand. No one else.
RK: Even in IPS, I think 3 now?
AR: There are some in IPS. I do not remember the names in SP rank.
RK: Naveenchand and others were conferred batch, right? I am talking about direct IPS.
AR: Direct IPS are less.
AR: Yes. Ramanjaneyulu is one. There are some from North India.Tarun Joshi and few others.
RK: I am talking about our state people.
AR: Our state people, no one after Ramanjaneyulu. *laughs*
RK: Ramanjaneyulu is the only one left.
AR: Ramanjaneyulu …. may be in his case people would have thought that I am supporting brahmins. Ahh, correct. Why it came up was, Ramanjaneyulu worked in intelligence. He is one of our finest and most active officers. Unfortunately, there was some problems with him.
RK: Vijayawada issue.
AR: Yeah unfortunately some issues came up but he is one of the finest and brilliant officers. He has many good contacts. Naturally, there were many inputs. Above him, there was IG Rathna Reddy. All these were excellent team. At that time, Ramanjaneyulu used to make some excellent reports. May be because of that, some of the others felt that I supported him but other than Ramanjaneyulu, which other Brahmin was there to support? *laughs*
RK: Yeah. Even I was about to say that. There were only two, no one else *laughs*
AR: Only he was there. Even with him, there was nothing that I was supporting. He himself was brilliant. Automatically …. reports were read by everybody. He was not alone. There was a team below him.
RK: It was hieararchy.
RK: That was one thing in the department. Leave that aside. On naxalite issue, were talks your idea?
AR: It was not my idea. To conduct talks was not my idea. It was totally that of the party. Political party, at that time … a senior journalist, a very very senior journalist….he at that time drafted the manifesto …. at that time, it is said that some of the journalists suggested it. To conduct talks was not my idea … to divide was also not my idea .. unfortunately, it was attributed to me. Situations developed in that way. Because of that, I used to report that the situation is so and so. Beyond that ….
RK: It looked as if …. they were brought out and deliberately taken to task.
AR: Talks idea was not at all mine. I was not even in field at that time.
RK: you were in intelligence?
AR: No. Before talks, YSR manifesto itself had that it.
RK: Yeah, it was there.
AR: At that time, I was in Vigilance. Vigilance and Enforcement. I didnt know about their manifesto. Afterward, when I inquired who drafted it, I came to know that some senior journalists drafted it. Then .. of course I didnt oppose it. When I went to Delhi …. to understand what these talks are … when I went to Delhi, when we saw North East dialogues etc., there was a negotiator, peace agreements etc. That means, you are internationalizing an ordinary issue. That means when you introduce State, talks, agreements etc. Many eminences also…. they are actually intellegent … we in police department are like fools … They are very intelligent people. They go to North East. They go to Nagaland. They go to London. The forces which want to divide India operate from London, Canada (from outside the country) …
RK: There will be international operation.
AR: Yes. There will be international operation. They know the strategy very well. How to internationalize a small issue. We were flabbergasted at what we saw … Nagaland talks etc. That same pattern, they were trying to replicate here. If they do the same thing here … go for talks etc., State will be totally helpless. International … UN may send force.
RK: They will put a nominee.
AR: Yeah, they may put a nominee. It was at that level. That we explained to CM. Moreover, at field level, MLAs were totally getting marginalized. In 6 months, the situation developed in such a way, MLAs were forced to mobilize people for the meeting of these people. Because of that, YSR being what he is, he took tough decision. He knew. All said and done, he knew that the buck stops there. *laughs*
AR: So, then he … I mean not just him .. Government overall, Chief Secratary, myself, Home Minister .. all.
RK: Situation compelled you take such a decision.
AR: So, that is it. Because, small problem too ….. Not just that, what was just an entity called PWG, it achieved an all India stature in the name of Maoist Party. When it gets an all India stature, it becomes easy for any external agency to give any logistic support. Until it was PWG as a small entity, it was ok. But when it takes a different form, it becomes easy for any external agency to give support. And also, legitimize it that what they are doing is right that this is people’s war. Just a little tip of the balance and external agencies can put force here that this is a conflict between people. That is possible. Government realized it at that time.
RK: So, is it over according to you?
AR: No. No. No. Its not over yet. Now the danger is if we think everything is over and forget all tactics, we will have to retrain ourselves. Retraining will become a problem.
RK: Once you relax …
AR: What happens is, all those who worked extensively in field, have now come to IG rank. Some people now know some areas but not in all. So, if we forget the training and tactics, we will have to reinvent the wheel. It should never be assumed that the danger is over. We have to maintain the tempo and contain it.
RK: Ok. Slowly, along with you spiritual learning and work on Dharma prachara, some say you are working towards a career in politics. Is that right?
AR: Politics …. not at all. I am not at all interested. Never. I dont want to waste time. It is a waste of time. It is a big hierarchy. You go there and stand in a queue, you kill your ego …. I dont anything else but I do have ego *laughs*
AR: Killing that ego …. It is also one of the reasons why I never tried for another job after retirement. I didnt want to go behind the secretariat everyday. I can happily live in my whatever …
RK: Even otherwise, in private companies you could have joined.
AR: I didnt join in private company because now I got a free time now to study.
RK: You have interest in this area.
AR: I can do something for Sanskrit. Definitely, like you said, I am associated with Sura Bharati organization. Pullela Ramachandrudu and others started it. Justice Narasimha Reddy is the president. I am the vice president. I am associated with Telugu Bhasha Samrakshana Samiti. We are going to start Samskrita Bhasha Samrakshana Samiti. So, like this I am associating myself with culture, language.
RK: Samskruti Parirakshana.
AR: Samskruti Parirakshana. Preservation of both Telugu and Sanskrit. Because, unfortunately, after English medium was introduced in Govt schools, now every fellow is switching over to English. Telugu is getting completely neglected. What we say is …. parents are asking … Mathematics, Sciences you can keep in English if you like. But social sciences, you keep in Telugu. For example History. What difference does it make if Italy’s history is learned in Telugu or English? If you take Mathematics, ok … calling Binomial Theorem by a different name, will give him some disadvantage … parents may think like that. So, to avoid issues for parents, what we are saying is keep Sciences in English if you like, but social studies must be in Telugu. We are pursuing this with Government now. So, if Telugu is not preserved, there will be no Nannaya, Tikkana, Pothana. By next generation, no one may know who Vemana was.
RK: Even now, students dont know.
AR: They become totally …. like I said … disinherited. Nobody will know that we have inherited so much. All of them will be like ….. ignorant …
RK: like orphans …
AR: Like orphans …
RK: As if we just came out of the jungles ..
AR: So continuous effort is needed from everybody. This is the time. If it doesnt happen now, we will be in a ….
RK: Great danger is coming…
AR: I feel we will be in a bad shape.
RK: One civilization’s history will vanish.
AR: Yes. One civilization. If we dont study our books …
RK: Dont look at it a religion, look at it as civilization…
AR: If we dont study our books in one generation … So Valimiki is no more… Vyasa is no more… Vemana is also no more.
RK: They are already no more. If we ask today’s children, they ask who is Vyasa!
RK: What do your children do?
AR: Even my children, unfortunately, I have sent them out.
RK: Where? How many children?
AR: Two children. My daughter and son, both have America craze. Like everybody, they also left. *laughs*
AR: So that is it. That is why, I completely …. I decided not to go to America …. I decided to stay here … and spent total free time on culture etc.
RK: Was there anything, in your job or in personal life, that caused great grief to you?
AR: Grief as in …. there are 1 or 2 incidents. For example, when I was DGP, statues were destroyed (million march incident), for some 2 days, I felt really sad. Despite having so many forces, why did this happen, was the feeling. Unfortunately, at that time, lack of co-ordination among concerned officers, lack of knowledge of what was happening there. In a law and order situation, when 10 people come, the concerned office should stop them. If due to lack of command or otherwise, the officer doesnt, those 10 become 100.
RK: Yes. Then it grows out of control.
AR: Lack of knowledge of this with senior officers, lack of communication, some times, it happens like that. That situation developed like this. I saw one or two such incidents in my service. There I was not directly responsible, so I didnt feel bad. Here, all said and done, DGP is responsible. I cannot say that it is not my responsibility.
RK: Incident was also not a small one.
AR: haaa! It was not a small incident. At that time, I felt sad. Otherwise, there were not many incidents where I felt very sad.
RK: Did you feel that it was a failure personally?
AR: Yes. To an extent. Because, I cant say that it is not my responsibility. Though, responsibility is that of the man at that place, his senior, his senior …. the complete hierarchy. Any incident in Hyderabad, we place thousands of forces, we place senior officers too. But something went wrong. Something as in … of course, I cant say … but some communication gap was there.
RK: At that time, you were IG Intelligence right?
RK: Not that incident. I am talking about the time when YSR died in helicopter crash. You were additional DG, Intelligence. Right?
RK: Yadav was the DGP right?
RK: He gave a statement that the moment Chief Minister flies, that they dont have responsibility. Is it correct?
AR: Strictly speaking what he said was right. The pilots there, they were supposed to check the flight condition …. path condition.
RK: Thats correct. That will be aviation responsibility.
AR: That complete flight path, they are supposed to check with satellite imagery. Helicopter condition is also their responsibility. It doenst come under our scope at all. So what he said was right.
RK: Not like that. First, the flight crosses Mehbubnagar right?
AR: Yes. Thats the route.
RK: Mehbubnagar SP was alert that day?
AR: No. He doesnt need to. He wouldnt even have that information. If he (CM) is going to Chitoor, only Chitoor SP is alerted.
RK: Complete flight route is not alerted?
RK: It was there before right?
AR: No, it was never there. Never there. Alerting all SPs enroute has never been there.
RK: CM is called Alpha right?
RK: Communication that Alpha crossed the district border has to be issued right?
AR: No. No. It cannot be monitored by anybody. Communication will not be there. If he is going to Chitoor, SP Chitoor will know, DIG Ananthapur will know, IG Rayalaseema will know. No one else will have an idea.
RK: What is the ambition next?
AR: There is nothing like ambition. Only to work in this field.
RK: This itself is ambition.
AR: Thats all. In this field, I will work some more. I may write some more books. In simple Telugu. Like you said before, all serious issues … what is Dharma? Is it that inflexible? …. Bharatam (Mahabaratam) is full of this only. Veda Vyasa was not a fundamentalist. You may have read in Telugu … people learned in Dharma Shastras called it Dharma Jnana, Spiritualists called it Vedanta, Poets called it Maha Kavya …. so at that time, he was Sociologist, he was philosopher, he was scientist, he was a politician …. he told everything …. Moksha Dharma, Raja Dharma, Yuddha niti .. he said everything … so had the so much …. knowledge of everything in the society … so, now our scholars also need to study the society … if they dont study society and you sit with your books, there is no use..
RK: So in that direction, you are working…
AR: You asked me about my ambition … so I want to build scholars
RK: Motivate them ….
AR: Motivate them…. and think and work toward protecting our siddhanta …. writing books on that …. that which we can do easily … writing books.. because no one will have to feel bad about it ….. *laughs*
AR: We cant say if the reader feels bad … but *laughs* …. writing in simplest language possible … this is my ambition.
RK: Wish your ambitions come true …. Thank you very much.
AR: Thank you.